challenge coming up!

[Brownsbend]

Now that I've put out 15 caches, I decided it's time for a challenge. To complete the challenge, you'll need to have found each of my caches. And you will need to get some info from each of the cache pages which will give you- you guessed it- 15 digits for coordinates.

I'm giving advance warning to even the playing field a bit and give people and chance to find some before the challenge is published. At this point, no one has found all, but there are several with 5 or more:
Elkjim- 10
Kestrel Ridge- 9
Big Eddy- 8
markellie- 7
Bubblegummers- 7
Putter & Sassy- 6
happyinbend- 6
west coast weenies- 6
hikecraterlake- 6
BAD DOGS- 5

There will be a $25 gift card for REI for the FTF. Reason enough to get caching. I'm expecting to publish in a week or so.

[bigeddy]

Nice idea. Sadly, you can count me out during the coming week for several reasons. And Elkjim is in Alaska so that eliminates the top contender. Should be fun for those who can do it. You're turning into quite the cache placer. Keep up the good work!

[Brownsbend]

I'm most likely going to hold off on it until the numbers get more interesting. We will see.

[logscaler]

We are out for a while as well.

[Brownsbend]

Kestrel ridge found In the Court of the Crimson King today, putting him at 10. I'm going backpacking on Steens Mountain this weekend, so I see the challenge getting published about the end of the month.

[Shotgun & Peashooter]

Spending all our time going after LOT's right now. And then the end of August brings hunting season, so we will be out for awhile on this one as well...

[PMOGUY]

Between work and dog nursing my next month is not looking to open for much caching. This looks like a fun challenge that I would be interested in though. Mollie's wounds are healing but it is going to take a while. I am getting pretty good at wound cleaning and bandaging but must remain very diligent to prevent infection.

[Brownsbend]

Holy Cow! EZ-Ryderz did 5 of mine today. One of those wasn't in the first 15, so they're up to 4 right off the bat. Challenge will be published soon.

[Brownsbend]

elkjim found two more today, putting him at 12/15. The challenge has been submitted for review and should be published soon.

[Brownsbend]

Sadly, this challenge isn't going to happen. Here is the reviewer note I just received:

I have reviewed your cache, and I don't think it fits the definition of a
"challenge" cache. A Challenge Cache typically sets forth a challenge goal,
like "find a cache in every county" or "find caches whose names begin with each
letter of the alphabet" or "find one cache for each possible difficulty/terrain
combination." The challenge seeker may then choose which caches to use in order
to meet the terms of the challenge, rather than being required to find a
specific list.

Your cache is more of a "bonus" cache to reward geocachers for finding all of
your other caches. It would be acceptable to require geocachers to use clues
actually found in your other caches in order to determine the coordinates for
this cache, but not to require that they only have found them at some point.
In its current form, your cache is more of an "Additional Logging Requirements"
cache, covered under the new guideline on that subject, found here:
http://www.geocaching.com/about/guideli ... fallcaches The
requirement is, "find my 15 caches other caches and then you may log this one,
too."

To fix this, you can either drop the requirement that cache finders must find
the other caches, or you can rework the cache page so that the final coordinates
cannot be determined without actually visiting all of the other caches.

And my response:

Well, this decision effectively eliminates this cache. I have no interest in
dropping the requirement that they find my first fifteen, since that was the
whole point in the first place. Also, it would be unfair of me at this point to
have cachers get information from the caches themselves, because that would
require people who have already found them to revisit them, something I didn't
want to do. Since fixing this, under such requirements, would change the very
nature of what I was trying to create, I'm just going to delete it.

Needless to say, I'm disappointed by their decision, especially considering the amount of absolute crap that gets published without them blinking an eye. Looks like a lot of work for nothing. Sorry for the false alarm, folks. Just wanted a way to encourage people to visit my caches more often and apparently that doesn't fit within their rules.

[bigeddy]

Without seeing the cache page the reviewer's explanation seems a bit muddled. Did you give the coordinates for the cache? That may be your problem. If it works for you, post bogus coordinates and require the finders to complete your list in order to get the final coordinates. That is how the History challenges such as The Oregon History Challenge! (GC1EP4J) or the Washington History Challenge (GCR110) work, so the reviewer should have no problem with that approach.

[Brownsbend]

According to the reviewer, requiring people to find a certain list of caches to complete a challenge- rather than letting them choose their own- falls under the category of "additional logging requirements", which they don't allow. This is inaccurate, of course, because other challenge, like the Oregon History Challenge, require exactly that.

[bigeddy]

According to the reviewer, requiring people to find a certain list of caches to complete a challenge- rather than letting them choose their own- falls under the category of "additional logging requirements", which they don't allow. This is inaccurate, of course, because other challenge, like the Oregon History Challenge, require exactly that.

Then, ask the reviewer for clarification about why History Challenges are allowed but other lists are not, especially given the fact that ALRs are not grandfathered. Ask what the specific difference is between your cache and the History Challenges that violates the ALR guideline.

If there is no difference--that is, reviewer judgement--then go to Groundspeak for resolution. If it turns out there is a special exemption for History Challenges, then point out that it needs to be clearly stated in the guidelines.

Keep us posted on progress.

P.S., if you do get the cache published, I have an active geocoin I would like to give you to put in it.

[Brownsbend]

According to him, I could go find the cache for the Oregon History Challenge without having found any of the listed caches. If the owner deleted it, I could get Groundspeak to reinstate it. Their guidelines as far as challenges and ALR's are really iffy.

[bigeddy]

According to him, I could go find the cache for the Oregon History Challenge without having found any of the listed caches. If the owner deleted it, I could get Groundspeak to reinstate it. Their guidelines as far as challenges and ALR's are really iffy.

Does he understand that the posted coordinates are bogus? According to the cache page, you have to find all the caches on the list and have your finds verified in order to get the correct coordinates. Is he saying that the cache pages should be reworded to allow anyone to find the cache without doing any of the qualifying caches? If so, the reviewers have been lax in their duties! It puts in doubt the validity of all challenge caches that have ALRs whether they are a fixed list or a subset such as the Fire Lookout Challenge.